In her work with women, Dr. Lisa Kaplin hears many stories of some version of ‘I’m not good enough.’ She shares how her work is to help them first debunk that lie and connect with their inner genius. Connect with Lisa at LisaKaplin.com.
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My book, Love Lies Beneath: How Reclaiming My Soul Through Story Became The Secret To Healing My Heart is available in paperback and as a Kindle at Amazon.
Claiming Your True Identity with Lisa Kaplin
Transcript is an approximation of our conversation
Zette Harbour 0:02
Welcome to Love Lies Beneath. I’m Zette Harbour. I’m glad to have you here. Do you feel like stress, fear or pain take up way too much of your energy? Have you wondered if you’ll ever be free of that heaviness of your past? Do you long to feel as good on the inside as your life looks on the outside?
Zette Harbour 0:44
In this podcast, you’ll discover the story of who you really are, and how to set yourself free. Together, we’re going to travel into those wild spaces of our inner landscapes, and dive deeply into the rich soil of our lives, reclaiming Soul through Story and healing our Hearts. My book, Love Lies Beneath is the map. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast so you don’t miss any of this enriching journey. And now, let the adventure begin.
Zette Harbour 1:43
In Episode 21, I share my conversation with Lisa Kaplin. Lisa is a professional certified coach and psychologist. I met Lisa while I was in the training program for the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching back in 2017. Lisa was one of our trainers. And she is truly delightful. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did.
Zette Harbour 2:19
Hi, I’m Zette Harbour This is Love Lies Beneath. I’m Zette and today my guest is Lisa Kaplin, a gracious, deeply talented wise coach and trainer, who through her work shares her warmth, her insights and her wonderful sense of humor, which I have personally experienced, having been in trainings with Lisa. So welcome, Lisa.
Lisa Kaplin 2:42
Thank you What a nice introduction. Thanks.
Zette Harbour 2:44
You are welcome. I’m really glad you could be here.
Lisa Kaplin 2:47
Me too. Me too. This is fun.
Zette Harbour 2:49
Would you tell our listeners a little bit about you and the work you do?
Lisa Kaplin 2:53
So I’m a psychologist and a coach. The work I do now though, is is all coaching while all coaching and training and speaking so a variety of things. But mostly I coach people around what’s holding them back in life, what how they get stuck, how they can get unstuck and what they can do to to move forward? That’s kind of the short answer, but I do.
Zette Harbour 3:16
And I’m guessing stories have a lot to do with that.
Stories Hold People Back
Lisa Kaplin 3:19
Stories have a lot to do that. It’s funny you say that because it’s almost always what holds people back. The stories they’re telling themselves is often so it’s all about stories, but the the helpful stories and the unhelpful stories?
Zette Harbour 3:32
Yeah. Isn’t it really extraordinary that something is sort of ordinary? And almost, it’s so ubiquitous, that I think most of us don’t even notice that it’s there anymore?
Lisa Kaplin 3:42
Mm hmm. Exactly. Yeah, it’s it’s everywhere. And we don’t, until we’re like really conscious of the stories that we want to own versus the stories that are holding us back. They all just blend, right. And there are these unseen drivers on most of our lives for sure. unseen, unconscious and right. We don’t even we’re so caught in them that we can’t even see them yet. And that’s really what coaching does is it’s somebody standing outside of it saying oh, I see a story there that’s not helping you. Can we pull that apart a little bit and having that outside person who can look at it.
Zette Harbour 4:20
Right? We’re like story whisperers
Lisa Kaplin 4:23
I love that. Let’s just change the whole field. No more coaching. We’re story whispers
Zette Harbour 4:29
Well, we really aren’t like the coaches everyone thinks coaches are, right, the ones that yell at you from the sidelines and blow the whistle and yeah, we’re not so we are story whispers more. Yeah, I like to think of story as sort of thinking of like the goldfish in the bowl of water. The fish is swimming. It relies on the water for its very life for all of its nutrients and air and it has no idea what water is. If you said to the goldfish, what’s water they look at you like you were crazy, right? Because they’re in it. Right and they’ve just X ray survived using it. And that’s so true of us with our stories, we totally don’t notice them. But we rely on them to get us through our lives for, you know, nourishing us and also fueling us to move forward in life. Right? Right or holding us back, either one. So in your own journey, what stories have you encountered in yourself that you thought were just extraordinary doorways into a deeper relatio nship with yourself?
Lisa Kaplin 5:27
Just even the awareness of the external forces on us, I just wrote up a blog recently about when I was the year I was born, women couldn’t have credit cards in their own name, they couldn’t have a mortgage in their own name. And so much of my consciousness, conscious awareness comes from being a woman and looking at my mother, my grandmother, other women in the world. And what I thought was like, that’s, that’s not fair, or that sucks, to you know, what, what do we bring to the table? I think that’s, that’s been such a driving force for me. And now I have a daughter is 23, and a daughter in law who’s 28. And I think about that what they see in the world, it’s the stories of women really propel me, but also the stories of women have held us back not because women have held themselves back, but rather society, the stories about what it is to be a woman and what it is to be shouldn’t be a woman.
Zette Harbour 6:28
Right, what’s acceptable?
Lisa Kaplin 6:30
Right, exactly. And it’s been very, very limiting for men, you know, centuries really, right. Well,
Zette Harbour 6:37
maybe even 1000s. Even before that, exactly. Right. Right. Yeah. You know, to give fair, you know, equal airtime, I think men there are stories about what it is to be in man shred, you know, for, in some ways sound really wonderful, like, Oh, they could always have credit cards, right. But, but in fact, the there are plenty of stories that limit men’s ability to have the full range of experience. Right, right. Right, sharing emotions, talking about their feelings, you know, enjoying playing with children, you know, all the there’s enjoying cooking anything, you know, that we divided, so blatantly didn’t it actually makes sense for either gender, or any gender in between, by the way? Yes, that’s even even a bigger story is the story that gender has to be binary, that they’re exactly. Right. Which, which genetic says that’s actually inaccurate? Right. So Isn’t that great? You know, there’s so much science that actually supports the expansion and unpacking of these kind of rigid stories about us, right?
Lisa Kaplin 7:44
Yes, exactly. Yeah. And it’s exciting to be hopefully in a time where that starts to turn. And we can look at it all from a very different point of view.
Limiting Cultural Stories
Zette Harbour 7:55
Well, it’s wonderful to because even if you had a sense of it, like you were saying, you know, it sounds like your sense of the limiting stories around women in our culture, come from a long time ago for you, you know, the awareness that the year you were born, all these things were true about women the limitations, as we get older and have access to this really powerful scientific and research based information to enable us not just to honor intuition, shift our stories, but to combine intuition with evidence. It’s fantastic. The combination, so powerful. What do you think was the driver for you early on more of the, the intuition or the evidence?
Lisa Kaplin 8:35
I’d say external evidence? I’m not necessarily proud of that answer. But that’s the truth. I really listened to girls don’t do this. Girls don’t do that. Girls don’t have to go to college, girl stoned, you know, girls need to find a husband. And a big huge turning point in my life was when a typing teacher said, pulled me out of class and said, go to college, you’re so bright, go to college, and I listened. So it was external voices ultimate that that propelled the action that led me to start to believe the internal voice, but I think the internal voice was so not available at that time, that it was the extra voices that that pushed, for better or worse, right.
Zette Harbour 9:20
Well, I think that makes sense. You know, when we’re young and vulnerable, we really do have to trust that the information the stories we’re being given are true. Right? Exactly. Yeah. We don’t have the option to just get in the car and drive away. No, we did not. We did that. Yeah, so it’s really extraordinary. And I wonder too, because when we hear a story that is coming from outside of us, in some ways, I think it lands most powerfully because there’s a part of us that already knows that’s true. What do you think about that in this particular story?
Lisa Kaplin 9:53
I knew it somewhere in my if I like think about an inner genius. I knew it, but I didn’t believe it. You Because it’s just not what I was loving. But something so connected when she said those words to me. I mean, I literally went home and said to my parents, it was May of my senior year of high school and took not one placement test nothing. I went home and I said to my parents, I want to go to college. I took a placement test that Saturday, and I went, there had to be something besides her words that propelled that action to happen. But I don’t think I even realized it at the time that she tapped into something so ready to come out of me,
Zette Harbour 10:34
right? Because a seed can fall to the ground, but it’s not going to blossom. It’s not going to grow. If there isn’t something there to nourish it and the fact that you immediately took a test at like a week late, yeah, not even a week later, which is crazy. You can’t do that anymore. But yeah, the tight end, so I’m guessing that the soil was fertile. Right. It was ready. Exactly what happened? Yes. Yeah. And that is a beauty too. Sometimes all it takes is that one presence, that one person to hold that voice for that part of ourselves?
Lisa Kaplin 11:10
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. She planted that seed. And then that was it. And you were ready to go. Yeah, the trajectory from you know, if you did whatever movie was beneath Poucher, like two doors or something
Zette Harbour 11:20
like that? Oh, right, with sliding doors,
Lisa Kaplin 11:23
sliding doors, right like that. That is my sliding door moment, because one way was pretty clear. And the other way was the way I went, and the trajectory was so different.
Zette Harbour 11:34
That is extraordinary. Yeah. Reminds me of folktales. You know, I’m a huge fan of folklore. I’ve been a traditional storyteller for almost 30 years, and I’m does this sort of the love of my life or these folktales. And in every folktale you know, the heroine has that moment. hero’s journey. Yes, exactly. Yes. The magical being says, oh, by the way, you know, what I love about so for me, you know, I totally appreciate the hero’s journey. I However, having, you know, being a, you know, more of a feminist and, you know, storyteller. For me, I was always fascinated by the stories of the heroines, the women died, they, they did not pick up the sword and, you know, arm themselves to the teeth, and trudge out and slay the dragon, at least the stories that I’ve been drawn to like Rumpelstiltskin, or the handless maiden or the selkie stories, they, they really triumphed through connecting to their own wisdom, their own inner power, which they always found by going through their hearts through the right. Alright, so this story launched you into this whole new world that you did not even see coming. And as you, you know, really became the person that really, you know, was inhabiting this story. You know, what do you think changed for you? Oh, my
Lisa Kaplin 12:54
gosh, so much change. On the main thing that changed was my relationships with women friendships, I didn’t, I had some friends in high school. But I there was a separation a little bit, I was focused more on a boyfriend at the time. And I went to call it and broke up with the boyfriend fairly quickly. And at college and made really close, dear friends that are my still best friends today. And that like having surrounding yourself with women who support you, there’s nothing, just nothing better than that. It’s amazing. So and that has led to so much of the work that I do it, how I raised my children, all of it, it’s affected everything.
Zette Harbour 13:40
And that is a pretty turned on its head story about women relationships with each other, meaning you don’t often hear that. Well, I think that the story we sort of are, you know, and I just turned 58. So I was born in 63. And, you know, the story that you kind of saw in the media, television, whatever movies and read about in magazines, right? Women were always competing with each other. Yes, yes, exactly. We’re always competing to get the guy, right. To look the best have the best jewelry, the clothing, all these things. And so that was more of a story of competition. And so what I’m hearing is the complete opposite.
Lisa Kaplin 14:21
Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. I think that’s a great point that we’re we were fed that frequently. In, as you said, all different types of media. We were fed that concept yet. I didn’t. That was their competition. Yeah, like a fun healthy competition. You know, who’s got more kids who’s gonna get married first or any, you know, anything. But we still love each other despite the competition, and I think that’s what’s not played in in the media or wasn’t anyway, I think there’s been a turn on that. where, you know, women supporting other women has become more popular. Because that’s the reality. A lot of us want
Zette Harbour 15:00
to live in. Yes. And I think that we, you know, many of us have experienced directly how powerful that can be. And the evidence of that is is more important than this fairy tale. Right? Exactly.
Lisa Kaplin 15:15
Exactly. All right. And, and even, maybe I, I saw it, women who didn’t want that kind of relationship, they wanted a true friendship and connection and support. And so that’s what I surrounded myself with.
Zette Harbour 15:28
Yeah, and I’m hearing too, and I’m wondering, you know, what that felt like to you. But it sounds to me, like one of the key ingredients there is that the women must be those who really want to own themselves.
Lisa Kaplin 15:42
I feel like I surround myself with women, strong, powerful. I like for me to seek to be like them. And I don’t want us better or worse, because I’m not judging. It’s not a judgment. But it’s I just thought women that I was like, I want to be like that. I want to seek to that. I still do look for relationships like that.
Zette Harbour 16:04
I think you know, when I hear you use the word competitiveness, I feel like it’s also it’s it’s like growing beside one another, as opposed to pushing the other one out of the way. Exactly, exactly.
Lisa Kaplin 16:16
I didn’t feel that way. I don’t feel that way. Absolutely. Like I really celebrate. And I watch my friends celebrate me and I celebrate them. And I when I tell the story that one of the most powerful moments of the last few years was when my son got married, and I couldn’t wait to see my friends, their faces, you know, and celebrating with me like that was like, oh, love that.
Zette Harbour 16:40
Yeah, beautiful source of energy, right? Yes, exactly. I was like, Where are my girls, I got to find them. All of this that you gained from your relationships with women from that pivotal moment of recognizing that there was a path in your life, that meant you could really take ownership of yourself, right, working to college by discovering who you wanted to be in the world. And all of that, and the women that have become your circle of you know, support and camaraderie. Right. Yeah, during this time. So how does that affect do you think the work that you do with women, when you’re coaching them?
Not Good Enough
Lisa Kaplin 17:19
A big piece of it is helping them grab that seed, you know, that soil that so many of us back to your original point, and so many women I find have these stories of some version of I’m not good enough. That’s good enough, I’m not pretty enough. I’m not good enough. I’m not that enough. And so I feel like my work is to help them first debunk that lie. But what is it that I’m good at? What is it that I seek to do and bring to the world and helping them really, really own and connect with that? So you know, their own flower grows, whatever that looks like for them? It’s different for all of us. really helping them with the get rid of the stories like oh, they’re so draggy. If draggy’s even a word. But you know what I mean?
Zette Harbour 18:08
Oh, absolutely. You know, we all have the bat, they call it baggage for a reason. It’s hard. Right?
Lisa Kaplin 18:13
Exactly, exactly, is to take that baggage and and, and really connect with their inner genius, whether it’s relationships, or their career, or anything, their health, anything in their lives.
Zette Harbour 18:27
So what do you notice? Is there any one thing that really must change for them in order for them to start exploring these new stories?
Lisa Kaplin 18:35
I think the one big thing is to stop identifying themselves as a victim. And I don’t mean, because maybe they have been a victim of a crime or something to that effect. So that’s not what I mean. But to have them realize that they’re not at the effect of the their world, they’re at the control of it. And once they believe that they can be in choice, no matter what, no matter what crap goes on around them, then they have all the power. But it’s a big sell that everyone’s so open to buying that right now.
Zette Harbour 19:11
Right, because the evidence, you know, I mean, I myself I write about that in my book that, you know, there are facts, I can point to facts and, and people are lawyers. Yep. They’re all lawyers. Right? That shit happened. We know that difference that you’re describing is do so for me. It’s that layer of story that I put on top of it. Mm hmm. So were these people able to care for me and let me know that I mattered? No. The layered the story I layered on top as a survival mechanism was guess what that means? I don’t matter.
Lisa Kaplin 19:47
Exactly. Exactly. That’s the layer. Pull that layer off. It’s a lie.
Zette Harbour 19:53
Right. Right. It’s a lie to ourselves to survive.
Lisa Kaplin 19:57
Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah, no one’s gonna care about me. No one will care for me. I’m not good enough for this. And yeah, but here’s the evidence, Lisa. Yeah, this one. But here’s the evidence. And I’m like, here we go. No, but if the evidence is all part of the lie,
Zette Harbour 20:16
well, and the evidence is just neutral.
Lisa Kaplin 20:19
Right is right. If you take the judgment out of it, it’s there’s facts too often the evidence, but they’ve taken the evidence and then added that layer, as he said, which then makes it the big lie
Zette Harbour 20:31
Lisa Kaplin 20:33
Right, exactly. And then they live in that story. And then, of course, they live in that story, which then adds to the evidence. Right, it’s a Doom loop. Because if I believe that people didn’t care for me, because I wasn’t worth it, then I act as if I’m not worth it. And then it’s, it just feeds on itself. From there,
Zette Harbour 20:54
right? We do, we do look for evidence that our story we made up about the situation is true, because it helps keep our little bubble intact, totally dissolving that bubble. That seems so terrifying,
Lisa Kaplin 21:09
right? Right. If I dissolve that bubble, I’ll actually have to live into my greatness. And I’ll have to, you know, take some risks and be vulnerable. And I was listening to Glenn and Doyle’s podcast today. And she talks about, you know, if you’d call those layers off, you’re likely going to get annihilated. And you have to at some point in your life, say, Alright, bring down the annihilation. Otherwise, what what what do you have?
Zette Harbour 21:37
Well, and what we’re really talking about annihilating is the idea of who we thought we were, right? Because what’s down at the core is who you truly are. Right? And right, no amount of truth can annihilate actually who you truly are. Right? Right. Well, the annihilation in this in her example, was that if we, if we really own who we truly are, and we put ourselves out there, people could reject us. And that could feel like annihilation, but it’s not It feels like it in the moment, but right. And, and but if you don’t do that, you you risk nothing. 100%. And you’re right, we, when we start to take ownership of our story, ourselves, who we are, by shedding those layers of the false stories, we do put relationships at risk. There’s no question. totally right. Where am I? Right through upsetting the balance the equilibrium that was there? And therefore, yeah, some things will change, some relationships will go,
Lisa Kaplin 22:38
yeah. Or somebody, even a new relationship might not be new for long, it might not last, and it’s gotta be okay. At some point.
Zette Harbour 22:47
Well, I think the more I have taken ownership of myself, the more it is. Okay. So facing the fear of the destruction of the idea of yourself, I guess. Yeah, it’s scary. Absolutely. Because staying small, as you know, you know, saying small is very protective. We talked about it. And, you know, you are a certified AIPAC trainer, as well as certified coach, and I learned a good deal of my ipek training with you, from you. And yeah, those Gremlins that we talked about, right. On they’re alive and well, I think they’re alive and well, and they say stay small. Right.
Lisa Kaplin 23:23
Right. Exactly. They want to protect you. So stay small. So it makes sense that they say that, but it doesn’t make sense to actually do that, as adults. Right? Yeah, that’s
Zette Harbour 23:33
a great way to put it. It makes sense that they say that, because honestly, they’re trying to protect us. It comes from a place of love. But it doesn’t make sense to live that way. Because it keeps you small,
Lisa Kaplin 23:44
totally, totally. And then you don’t accomplish the things you want to accomplish, or take the risks that you want to take. And yeah, and then you’re disappointed.
Taking A Big Risk
Zette Harbour 23:53
So what do you think just if you have an idea, or if it comes to you, what’s the biggest risk you’ve taken in your life? Do you think
Lisa Kaplin 24:01
It probably was to walk away from a eight year doctoral training $100,000 psychology degree? And say, No, I actually want to be a coach. That was a hard one because it’s hard to ignore your side costs. Those are some big side costs. And I love I love therapy. I love psychology. I use the concepts in my world, but when I chose to not follow that path anymore, other psychologists look to me like, Oh, really, you know, there’s so there was, there was some fear in it. It was it was the right thing for me. And then I’m so glad I made that decision.
Zette Harbour 24:40
Yeah, but I can imagine how crazy people must have thought you were
Lisa Kaplin 24:45
totally but in a psychologist, you went to call that school. And I had worked in the field for a couple of years, but I i it just it wasn’t calling to me anymore. And I was trying to force myself into it and I wasn’t feeling it. They thought, you know, this, it’s okay. It’s okay. I, no one can take that education away from me No one can. Even if I don’t practice therapy, it doesn’t matter. I, this is the route that’s calling me and I went with it.
Zette Harbour 25:15
Yeah, I can imagine that that is a big crossroads in life. You’re turning away the prestige of that. I mean, not that you aren’t you still, as you say, you have all the education, but in a sense, you you were declining the identity.
Lisa Kaplin 25:27
Right, right. Exactly. Yeah, there’s a very different, different way to take it. And again, not regretful at all. But it was a it was a scary jump.
Zette Harbour 25:38
Oh, 100%. I think a lot of people can relate to that. Yeah. And I think there are probably a lot of people who maybe didn’t make that choice and feel really like they have less spaciousness in their life because
Lisa Kaplin 25:52
of it. Right? Right. You see people who say, I have golden handcuffs in the corporate world, or maybe even other therapists or medical people, where if nobody committed to this, this is what I got an education and they feel they have to stay. And that makes sense. I understand those fears I lived in them. And it also makes sense at some point to say, but this this isn’t working.
Zette Harbour 26:16
Yeah. When it what I’m hearing is you you had exercised your muscle of choice in the opposition of sort of long held long standing beliefs that others had. Right, that that day, that teacher told you go to college. Right. Right. And you knew the the results that that could bring you the rewards. Right.
Lisa Kaplin 26:37
Exactly. Exactly. Well, and that is often when you take a big scary move, maybe the ROB saying, Oh, sure. Oh, maybe maybe don’t do that. That sounds like really risky. So it’s it is it’s a scary
Zette Harbour 26:52
jump. Yeah, cuz you’re risking not just your identity, but also perhaps your financial future. Hmm. For sure. I
Lisa Kaplin 26:59
didn’t know I didn’t know what this look like, really, at the time I took a risk being a therapist is you could pretty much count on a what an income looks like. And it’s a nice income. And so that was a risk. My husband was like, wait, I don’t understand, like you. Were you did eight years of graduate school. And I was like, Yeah, I know, I get it. And yet, this is the way I think I know I need to go. It
Zette Harbour 27:22
sounds like a really strong connection to your deep inner wisdom.
Lisa Kaplin 27:26
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I’m really, of what I love to do. And the methodology of it made perfect sense to me. It just really resonated. And so I was like, well, this makes sense. So why would I do this?
Zette Harbour 27:40
I’m certainly grateful, because you’re an awesome instructor and trainer. Yeah, that’s, you know, that’s where I really discovered your warmth and your insightfulness and your sense of humor.
Lisa Kaplin 27:52
Thank you. Thank you. Okay, coaching, I feel like also, it fit my personality more, I felt like at least how I was trained as a psychologist was more of a blank slate. And it just didn’t come up first, or just not a blank slate. I tried. But anyway, I found that that one said, who I was in the world as well, beautiful.
Zette Harbour 28:17
Well, I am so grateful that you shared these stories of awakening to and really embracing these places in your journey where you you became more of who you’re here to be.
Lisa Kaplin 28:29
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I was a pleasure. It’s really fun to share those stories, sometimes even talking about and you’re like, Oh, I get that. That’s interesting. You know, you may realize it,
Zette Harbour 28:40
I agree. That is the power of telling our story. Right? You know, we sort of assume Oh, I know all that. Right. But then you say that lot. And you go, oh, there’s more to it than that. There’s all these nooks and crannies. Always Yeah, I like to think of it actually is like going on a nature walk, you know, and so you can’t let’s just say you know, a day hike out in Yosemite or something. And, and you come back and you go, oh, was amazing. You know, I saw that I saw these trees. I saw the mountain I saw this. But if you really sat down and took someone step by step through what you experienced that day, you would come away thinking, Oh my gosh, that was life changing.
Lisa Kaplin 29:20
Right? That’s huge. I went over running water. And I you know, jumped at this one part and my ankle twisted a little and made all the things that could go with that. Yeah, that’s a great point. There’s little little nooks and crannies, as he said,
Zette Harbour 29:33
right. And I think as coaches that’s part of what we get to do for our clients is take them on those hikes and let them you know, if they’re ready to just sort of go No, I started here, I ended there. And that’s the end of the story. And we can say, Well, what about that path over there?
Lisa Kaplin 29:47
Right? Well, that’s often what they don’t see. They put blinders on. And they don’t really like well wait, you actually had to take that path and go over that bridge. And you you actually You had a job and you were scared of heights. What about that? Oh, you’re right. I did do that.
Zette Harbour 30:09
Yeah. So really being able to claim the treasure and the richness of the experience. Mm hmm. And celebrating themselves for the moments that they had there. Yeah.
Lisa Kaplin 30:19
Right, for sure.
Zette Harbour 30:20
Yeah. That’s the fun part, isn’t it?
Lisa Kaplin 30:22
It’s the best. I love it.
Zette Harbour 30:24
Yeah, me too. Well, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your stories. And I hope our listeners, you know, if they’re poised on the precipice of making that any of those kinds of decisions that you share with us today that you have inspired them the way you inspire me. And you’ve inspired all so many of us in the iPEC training program, as well as your clients and other areas of work. I know you’re a busy woman.
Lisa Kaplin 30:50
I’m busy. It’s good. I like being busy. I like it. I’m blessed and grateful.
Zette Harbour 30:55
I so appreciate you putting this interview into your schedule. Thank you.
Lisa Kaplin 30:59
Zette Harbour 31:00
You can contact Lisa and learn more about her work. At her website, LisaKaplin.com. And there you can catch her blog. Her writing is as delightful and enriching as she is.
Zette Harbour 31:22
I’m Zette Harbour. This has been M. I’m so glad you could join me today. For show notes and other resources. Go to LoveLiesBeneath.com and be sure to subscribe to this podcast so that you do not miss a single step on this adventure as we explore our inner wild landscapes and hear stories from other adventurers like Lisa. Go raibh míle maith agat!